many have argued that articles in awake!
in recent years show that watchtower was letting itself be told what do by the purple beast, namely, promote the united nations in its writings.
i can understand how many might quickly find support for this claim, for there are, indeed, many articles in awake!
Hawk:
Sorry bud, but I was sent the page 5 scan. Do not have page 4. I could probably get it though, as it does look to be additional pro-UN work.
Outlaw:
Well said.
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
many have argued that articles in awake!
in recent years show that watchtower was letting itself be told what do by the purple beast, namely, promote the united nations in its writings.
i can understand how many might quickly find support for this claim, for there are, indeed, many articles in awake!
Joseph,
I asked you about two specific articles - advertising UN International Years - which I provided a link to. Here is the link for a third time:
: http://www.geocities.com/wts_lies/observances.htm
These articles are very brief. Please read them. Now please explain to me how these constitute "Watchtower propaganda". Or do you concede that these two articles are instead UN propaganda?
Regarding the commemorative article on the UN website, you said:
...this article was propaganda for the Watchtower as far as the Watchtower was concerned, but was obviously propaganda for the UN as far as the UN was concerned. The articles were not written to help the UN; the fact that they did help the UN is not relevant, I believe. What matters is that the Watchtower thinks it was helped more.We all know the wts was officially registered with the UN, with the expressed expectation that they print articles supporting the UN. So now that you see articles printed by the wts that in your own words do support the UN ("obviously propaganda for the UN"), you say it's not relevant.
Boy, you'd make a good dub.
Let's see, they were expected to print articles supportive of the UN. They did print articles supportive of the UN. Well that's obviously not relevant!
A very lame argument indeed.
You don't want to speak to the two articles advertising UN International Years because you know they in no way constitute "Watchtower propaganda". They are propaganda for the UN pure and simple. Your argument has fallen flat on its face. I think the least you could do is fess up and stop wasting everyone's time.
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
many have argued that articles in awake!
in recent years show that watchtower was letting itself be told what do by the purple beast, namely, promote the united nations in its writings.
i can understand how many might quickly find support for this claim, for there are, indeed, many articles in awake!
Joseph,
The very act of entering this relationship constituted support for the principles of the UN Charter. This is an established fact seen in information from Hoeffel and other UN sources.
Your argument is analogous to a man pulling out a gun in a bank and stuffing an empty sack in front of the bank teller. If she stuffs it full of money and he leaves the bank, tell me, did he rob the bank or not? He never actually said the words. Is he guilty of robbing the bank? Of course. He is guilty because of his actions, not his words. In the same way, the WTS is "guilty" of supporting the UN. They entered a relationship whereby it was well understood that they would support the UN, and they lived up to the act of supporting the UN as has already been shown.
You still have not answered my questions. I challenged your assertion that "these articles are not propaganda for the UN; they're propaganda for the Watchtower". I asked how it is that advertising UN International years constitutes Watchtower propaganda as opposed to UN propaganda:
: http://www.geocities.com/wts_lies/observances.htm
Also, if the wts was not printing UN propaganda, why then does one of their articles appear on the UN website as a "commemoration of the signing of the UDHR and the role of Eleanor Roosevelt"?
: http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm
Or do you concede that the wts was printing at least some UN propaganda? Of course, this is an act of support, agreed?
It sounds like you agree that at least the United Nations expected the wts to live up to their commitment to support the UN. So why then, if the wts was not supporting the UN as you posit, did the UN not terminate the wts' association? It would appear the UN found the level of support acceptable.
I'd appreciate you answering my questions. Did the wts print some UN propaganda in their magazines? (Follow the links above.)
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
many have argued that articles in awake!
in recent years show that watchtower was letting itself be told what do by the purple beast, namely, promote the united nations in its writings.
i can understand how many might quickly find support for this claim, for there are, indeed, many articles in awake!
Until I see better evidence, I will not believe, for example, that the Watchtower submitted an application or reapplication form on which they agreed to accept the aims and goals of the UN...Thus, it is not true, as so many were claiming, that the Watchtower accepted in secret the aims and goals of the UN; all they did was allow the UN to believe whatever they wished to believe
Notice,
"By accepting association with the DPI, the organization agreed to meet criteria for association, including support and respect of the principles of the Charter of the United Nations..."
"The NGOs officially recognized by DPI cooperate with the United Nations to help build public understanding and support for United Nations programmes and goals."
The first quote is an excerpt from a letter from Paul Hoeffel, Chief of the UN DPI-NGO Section. He is speaking specifically about the WTS and says that they agreed to support the principles of the UN Charter.
The second quote is from a 1992 press release, the year the wts signed on with the UN.
Couple this with the pro-UN articles appearing in WT rags for the past ten years. There is no question the WTS was lending support to the United Nations - even if that support was only lip service.
So is it ok to bow down to an idol if I don't really mean it?
so not divulging the truth in this matter was entirely consistent with their teaching. At all times they must be very careful not to divulge any information to the enemy that he could use to hamper the preaching work.Joseph, I don't think anyone here is suggesting the wts was completely honest with the UN. We all know they were using or exploiting (as you say) the UN. And you're right that this is consistent with their teaching about being dishonest when it suits them. But this does not change the fact that the wts did agree to support the UN, and lived up to that commitment by running UN propaganda in their publications (and submitting samples of their articles to the UN).
Now all "theocratic warfare" aside, how can God's channel of communication be used as a channel of communication for the scarlet-colored wild beast? What jw believes Jehovah God would share his channel with the beast?
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
many have argued that articles in awake!
in recent years show that watchtower was letting itself be told what do by the purple beast, namely, promote the united nations in its writings.
i can understand how many might quickly find support for this claim, for there are, indeed, many articles in awake!
Mr. Skeptic,
You are so far away from the mark on this - perhaps you should stick to debunking the bible.
Rather than disseminating UN propaganda with "favorable articles," as Randall Watters and others have claimed, the Watchtower seems merely to be highlighting the United Nations' failures...If the WTS was not running "propaganda for the UN", then why does one of their articles appear on the UN Office of the High Commissioner website, as a commemorative article?Those who are quick to claim that the articles are propaganda for the UN fail to see the truth, in my view; these articles are not propaganda for the UN; they're propaganda for the Watchtower.
: http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm
Tell me, how does advertising UN International years comprise "propaganda for the Watchtower"?
: http://www.geocities.com/wts_lies/observances.htm
Does the Watchtower Society still point out the failures of the UN? Sure, why wouldn't they? The UN themselves do this. And the wts does still claim the UN is the scarlet-colored wild beast after all. If they can get away with doing this, while still living up to their responsibility to support and promote the beast, then they score twice, don't they?
The Watchtower was exploiting the UN, not helping itOf course they were helping the UN. The wts had to submit regular samples of their work to the UN. Were these articles not helping the UN, the UN would have canned the wts as an associate NGO - as they do regularly when NGOs don't fulfil their obligations to support the UN.
Call it a "mutual usership". The UN used the WTS to spread UN propaganda; the WTS used the UN for whatever it is they wanted out of the deal - notoriety, legitimacy, UN airplane rides, whatever. In the end it all comes down to money anyway.
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
well this is the day.. i mentioned to my mum that i read a good book recently about dates, and cronology.. she blew up and told me i was just trying to read anything that attempts to disprove jws.. apparently i am like those apostates, and people didnt want to talk to my because of it.. "this is the truth", she said.. well i am now an apostate.
it doesnt feel as bad as i thought it would.. josephus
UncleBruce,
My point was pretty much the same as yours, that **Jehovah's Witnesses are just another stupid little american cult**
I find it funny when a jw argues that all other religions are false because of their doctrinal error, but the jws are right in spite of theirs. This argument always boils down to 'their lies are worse than ours'. Too funny.
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
well this is the day.. i mentioned to my mum that i read a good book recently about dates, and cronology.. she blew up and told me i was just trying to read anything that attempts to disprove jws.. apparently i am like those apostates, and people didnt want to talk to my because of it.. "this is the truth", she said.. well i am now an apostate.
it doesnt feel as bad as i thought it would.. josephus
Its different because those religions do not teach the basic truth. For example: Catholics teach the trinity, which is not biblical. That's just one example.
Translation, "that's different, because their lies are more worser than ours!".
Tell me, is this "basic bible truth" to which you refer:
"Let the honest-hearted person compare the kind of preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom done by the religious systems of Christendom during the centuries with that done by Jehovah's Witnesses since the end of World War I in 1918. They are not one and the same kind. That of Jehovah's Witnesses is really "gospel," or "good news," as of God's heavenly kingdom that was established by the enthronement of his Son Jesus Christ at the end of the Gentile Times in 1914." --The Watchtower, May 1 1981, page 17.
'Cause I don't remember any mention of "1914" in Paul's gospel, which he elucidated at 1 Cor 15:1-4 and 2 Tim 2:8.
However I do remember Paul saying that anyone preaching a gospel different from his would be "eternally condemned". (Gal 1:8)
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/ngo-un/info/res-1296.htm .
the link above points to the economic and social council's resolution with regards as to consultative relations.
excerpts follow, afterward my comments: .
Despite the rantings of certain old hippies, there is ample evidence that the Watchtower Society was indeed living up to her responsibility to support the beast:
(All quotes from UN-DPI brochure, here: http://www.un.org/MoreInfo/ngolink/brochure.htm)
For the past ten years, the wts has devoted a portion of their publications to the UN, "[disseminating] information about the UN to their membership, thereby building knowledge of and support for the Organization at the grassroots level."
They have "[publicized] UN activities around the world on such issues as peace and security, economic and social development, human rights, humanitarian affairs and international law"; they have "[promoted] UN observances and international years established by the General Assembly to focus world attention on important issues facing humanity."
The Society even lived up to their responsibility to "keep the DPI/NGO Section abreast of their activities by regularly providing samples of their information materials relating to the work of the UN", as this link shows: http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm (note the second item in the list).
Since the leaders of this sham religion have professed ignorance of these responsibilities, one is left wondering just how these articles made it into the magazines in the first place, and even more so, just how it is that these articles were submitted to the UN!
I find it humorous that old hippies defense of the Watchtower Society (a.k.a. "the truth") amounts to, 'everyone else lied to the UN, so its ok that we did too'. Hey Hippie, read 1 John 2:21:
"I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth."
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
hi, folks,.
hmmm.
ive bitten myself off a pretty good chunk here, so bear with me as i try to figure out where to start.. two things id better say up front, though: none of this is meant to be in any way, a devaluing of the phenomenal work thats been done by anyone here on the board.
LoneWolf,
You can drop me a line also; my email addy is open. Incidentally, I am only an hour or two north of Seattle, in Vancouver BC.
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
isn't that the un building getting a special blast of god's love?!?.
(link, here: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowerlies/wt011581cover.htm).
ts,.
Isn't that the UN Building getting a special blast of God's love?!?
(link, here: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowerlies/wt011581cover.htm)
TS,
Did the Watchtower Society "support" the scarlet beast of Revelation?
: http://www.geocities.com/watchtowersociety/beast.htm
